Exclusive Cover Reveal: OUTSIDE IN AND THE INSIDE OUT by Emmy Kastner

I don’t think I’m overstating things by saying Arnold Lobel has been one of the most important figures in the history of children’s literature. His work (most notably his Frog and Toad series) has been beloved for generations and has heavily influenced scores of children’s book creators. That list includes author/illustrator Emmy Kastner, who set out on the daunting task of creating a biography of Lobel.

That biography – Outside In and the Inside Out – arrives on September 23rd, 2025. Today we’ll take a first look at the cover. But first, I had a few questions for Emmy.

Travis: What sort of research did you do for OUTSIDE IN AND THE INSIDE OUT?

Emmy Kastner: My research started with reading FROG AND TOAD ARE FRIENDS, OWL AT HOME, and MOUSE TALES religiously as a kid.

They had inexplicably struck a chord deep within me. There’s something magical about that sort of adoration you have for something as a kid, the kind of appreciation you don’t dissect or figure out. You just deeply love something because you deeply love it. The magic I felt reading Lobel’s books as a kid was my drive to research Lobel, I suppose, now as an adult who makes kids’ books for a living.

In 2021 I began to be more intentional about growing my collection of his books, discovering so many titles I’d never known. I began searching for any and all interviews, essays and publications where Lobel talked about his work. One interview led to the next. This early research was born out of genuine curiosity. I had no intention of making a picture book about Lobel, so my research felt personal and organic, which translated into an exciting journey that was extremely low stakes.

It was when I was reading a biography of Lobel by George Shannon when themes of the outside/inside began to coalesce into a picture book concept in my head. (Although I did dismiss it as a possibility for quite some time, a literal frog showed up on a tennis court and I yielded to writing that picture book I couldn’t shake!) 

I’m forever grateful for librarian friends for many reasons, but in this case it was my friend Andrea Vernola, a local children’s librarian here in Kalamazoo, who helped me access some incredible interviews that informed this book and I connected to on so many levels—as a reader, a writer and artist who makes books for kids, and as a human navigating the world.

Once I sold the book to Tamar Brazis at Viking, I continued to research throughout our editing process. There’d be a new interview, and I’d add or edit the manuscript or the art. I am grateful for Tamar and my art director, Kate Renner, who were fielding my edits right until the book was sent off to the printer.

I received The Ezra Jack Keats/Kerlan Memorial Fellowship in 2024, which meant I got to go the Kerlan Collection at the University of Minnesota and spend many days with 21 boxes of Lobel’s original artwork—sketches and doodles on tracing paper, polished sketches, book dummies with marginalia, color separations, finished art from fifty of his books. Incredible and informative, to say the least. I opened the first box to find a humble piece of lined notebook paper with the hand-written text for the first Frog and Toad story. I gasped. It was just me and another researcher and the library campus staff in this quiet room. I was holding it, starting to get choked up, when I whispered to the staff member, “This is the first Frog and Toad story. It’s in his handwriting.” They gave a supportive smile, and eyed the rest of the twenty-one boxes in my stack. I’m sure they were wondering if I was going to keep a tearful, whispery running commentary on the rest of my discoveries. I did not, but I did take a lot of notes.

The most powerful essay I read was one I found after the book was done. It felt affirming to read how he reflected on so many pieces I’d put together for this book. All this said, I don’t feel like I’m done researching, which may sound silly since the book is done and coming out in September. But I think that’s always a good spot to be. There’s always more to know. 

Travis: What was the trickiest part to get right? Or a moment that helped the book come together?

Emmy Kastner: There was a lot of self-imposed pressure, and a minefield of tricky things to navigate the moment I decided to make this book. Here are just five things.

1. Arnold Lobel is iconic. Frog and Toad are iconic. So many people love them! I was intimidated! There was some self doubt. I honestly had to keep my head down in the work or else I would start getting intimidated by the task at hand. Honestly, the more I dove into research the more of a person he became in my head, and the less intimidated I felt. 

2. I didn’t want to explain anything away and lose the magic of his stories. 

3. Then there was the matter of finding my path in reflecting BOTH the writer/artist Lobel is and the writer/artist I am. I found my way there. 

4. There’s a tender balance to strike when presenting someone’s entire life in a picture book. I don’t know anyone in his family or that worked with him professionally, but I wanted to do right by all of them.

5. Could I make a picture book biography that kids will like? This question nagged at me at the beginning. It’s a tricky category of books, to be sure. While I understand why folks often say that kids don’t want picture book biographies, I just think they don’t want some of them. I am confident in how this book came together in such an intuitive way to tell a story that is engaging, relatable and original.

Travis: How did you approach the artwork in this book? You’ve mentioned the Lobel easter eggs you included – have any favorites?

Emmy Kastner: I had played around with employing the technological methods Lobel used throughout his career. I hatched a plan to start the first few spreads with film color separations, then a few spreads with tight pen and ink and a limited palette, then on to full color with loose graphite lines. It felt unnecessarily complicated and disjointed. Though Lobel’s style evolved throughout his books, he always used a combination of ink, pen and watercolor. I decided that route felt more me. (But I use acrylic gouache so I swapped that in for watercolor.) For my books, I’ve often painted and scanned things separately, then arranged things digitally, so this was a new approach for me that I’ll be doing a lot more of. 

On every spread you’ll find some sort of reference to Lobel’s books—composition of a spread, details pulled from books and interviews, and familiar characters. I kept diving back into his books to help solve problems. There are a couple moments where some exposition is needed to bridge parts of his life in the book. I had an ah-ha moment when I realized the composition and writing style he uses in the story “The Journey” from the book MOUSE TALES was my answer to keeping it playful while moving the story along.

There’s a spot illustration of his closet and I filled it with clothes he wore in his author photos. You’ll notice the pattern on a T-shirt he wears as a boy is the pattern of Toad’s bathing suit. I’m working on a zine that will serve as an annotated illustration guide for all the easter eggs. THERE ARE SO MANY! I’m excited to hear what sort of details people discover! 

Travis: Final question: What snack puts you in peak creativity mode these days?

Emmy Kastner: I eat a lot of oranges. When I head out to sea I’m confident I will not get scurvy.

Thanks for taking my questions, Emmy!

And now, a first look at the cover for Outside In and the Inside Out by Emmy Kastner. It’s published by Viking and comes out September 23rd, 2025. Cover designed by Kate Renner.

(Click to enlarge)

And how about a look at the full jacket?

(Click to enlarge)

HOW ABOUT A CASE COVER REVEAL???

A bit more about the book, from the publisher:

A thoughtful and whimsical picture book about Arnold Lobel, award-winning creator of Frog and Toad.

Arnold Lobel was many things: a quiet observer, an avid reader, and the kind of man who kept a gorilla suit in his closet, just in case. Above all else, Arnold was an artist and a storyteller. And he infused pieces of himself in the characters he created. This made sharing his books with the world scary sometimes—but his stories would go on to inspire and delight readers and live on in their hearts for generations.

A rare window into the life and work of Arnold Lobel, creator of the Frog and Toad series, Outside In and the Inside Out captures the iconic creator of some of the most beloved children’s books of all time.

Filed under: Authors, Cover Reveal